To gloss or not to gloss? A discussion

[Allen]

The decals I'm using are so old that the lettering is coming off when I cut them out and/or soak them. Anyone know if a good way to "clear coat" old decals?

I've used this with good results.
Just brush it on the decals and let it dry before soaking in the water.

[Russ C]

Long ago there was talk of using some sort of 'coating' on images, photos and such to make them into decals for application to models. I wonder if this stuff would work for that Allen?

[Paul S.]

Just so we're all clear about Microset and Microsol. They are not interchangeable. They are part of a two-step process.

MicroSet is used when first applying a decal. Helps the decal adhere better.

After the decal has dried, then apply Microsol (or Solvaset, which I prefer, but I do have Microsol in my arsenal as well) over the decal (may take several applications) to get the decal to snuggle down and conform.

[Allen]

I made a quick, cheap video tonight showing how I apply my decals over a flat finish.
I don't have a video voice and I'm sure it won't win any awards.

I applied one large decal (from a Micro-Scale decal sheet) on the side of one my U33B's.
The shell was painted with Tru-color paint, which dried glossy.
Over that, I shot a decent coat of a dulling agent (one that I'm still experimenting with).
It does not dry 100% flat like Dullcote does and it's not quite as rough either. I'll post more about it in another post later.

I applied a puddle of full strength Solvaset and laid the decal right on the Solvaset.
Yes, I had to work kind of quick to position it before it started to get too soft.
Once dried, I applied three more heavy coat of full strength (every coat was full strength) Solvaset.
Then I shot a coat of the dulling agent again to seal off the decal.

Hopefully this does a decent job of showing how I go about it.
Like I've said before, this is NOT the best way to do it, nor am I trying to get you to do this way, it's the way that works for me.

[Paul S.]

Wonder if Allen is getting cash from Mt. Dew for a product placement fee? Or a lifetime supply?

"Drink Mt. Dew, the official soft drink of RMR!"

Next it'll be Kato Unitrack!

[Russ C]

More like 'Drink Mt. Dew or Paul will send you some Unitrack...you've been warned'

[Allen]

Lol!

[Steve H AC&Y]

The AC&Y decals are from K4 Decals. Vallejo Model Air Yellow paint which produces a flat tending toward satin sheen. I used the Micro Set/Sol two part application process. I think we have a winning combo, with the added benefit of doing away with the gloss coat application. Thank you Allen.

I soured on the Micro combo over gloss surfaces because the liquid would pool, resulting in too many air bubbles. As a result, for years I've applied the decal directly to the gloss finish and Solvaset it into submission. Always worked fine. With a flat finish the Set solution spreads out nicely, minimizing air bubbles. Makes complete sense. I have another Sol application to make on the ACY side but I'm pleased with how little fiddling I had to do to get to the state shown.

[Allen]

Steve,
Glad to hear things went well! Looks like they turned out good.
That's one thing I forgot to mention. The solution doesn't ball up as bad as it does on a matte or flat finish.
I got the last of the large logos applied to the sides of my U33B's last night, since the surface wasn't completely flat, the solution balled up a bit but at least not into one big puddle.

[Russ C]

Yep, that's why I've been a Vallejo fan for a few years now, a much better finish IMHO.

[Steve H AC&Y]

As a closing note to my portion of this discussion:

1. K4 decals over Vallejo Model Air paint.
2. Apply the decals over a wash of MicroSet, which does not pool due to the Model Air finish.
3. Before the MicroSet completely evaporates apply MicroSol.
4. Let the MicroSol evaporate
5. Pop any air bubbles that appear and with a sharp knife slit the decal where it did not completely adhere to the surface.
6. Multiple applications of Solvaset as necessary.
7. Flat coat the decal application. I used Vallejo Matte Varnish which was new to me. Still learning the application ins and outs.

Weathering is next. We'll see if the decals edge is a problem.

[Paul S.]

Turned out quite nice, Steve. I bet weathering blends everything together well.

[Steve]

Hi all . Long time no chat

As to the subject of gloss before dealing, I do it . I've been away for awhile building model tanks . I use the gloss before and after dealing . I use VMS 2 in 1 decal solution. It's really makes decals lay flat like painted on . Now the reason I use it , is because I use AK Interactive 3rd gen acrylic paints a lot . This solution will after a several mins eat at the paint or discolor it . The gloss gives it a protective layer and a smooth finish . And I seal my decals afterwords with a gloss too . This does a couple of things . It seals in the decal and it does I'm my opinion finish off that painted on look . It also gives once again a smooth finish for weathering with enamel washes , oil paints ect , and panel lines will flow much better on the smooth finish . Pin washes and everything is also laying on top of your protected work of your base coats and detail painting . I do a lot of dusty weathering as I'm focusing on German WW2 north africa tanks and vehicles. So a lot of washes and panel lining is involved . I find with the gloss coat everything flows to where it would naturally settle in real life .Once done (is anything really ever done) then it all gets a really flat coat to protect it from handling and to take all that gloss away

anyways just my opinion , I know a lot of people in the armor modeling world don't, but I do as it works for me . Right now I have been using Tamiya rattle can clear coats , but I will be switching to VMS soon . I do a lot of airbrush work and a rattle can is a huge waste of product . And I like VMS from using a few of their other products now

I this great little forum is alive and well , good job members and moderators


Steve

[JerryZ]

Hi Steve:

This thread has been a wealth of knowledge, which is typical of what I see here. I've been here for a little over two years. I rarely post anywhere else. The total lack of "noise" is refreshing.

Regards,
Jerry

[michael13j]

Amen, Jerry!

michael

[Ben V]

100% true statement Jerry...!!!

Love your work Steve...

[KansasBob]

First of all...Dude, that is my Frisco boxcar photo. I have struggled with the same issue (obviously) of decal edges.

I have gone to a good gloss coat on the model, decals, solvaset, and then gloss coat...and added this VMS matt as the final coat. I find this VMS matt finish really does a nice job hiding the edge of the decal.

[michael13j]

Obviously good results, Robert! The only issue/concern for me doing it is worry of so many coats of coverage for decaling purposes obscuring small detail. Not the case here obviously. Thanks for the VMS tip. Probably need to ship it in, but who doesn't have suppy issues anymore.

michael

[KansasBob]

Michael,

Definitely a concern. I do a lot of wood cars, and find it important to get a good clear coat on those for the decals to follow the surface without air/hazing. On the cars above, the larger problem was losing details as I tried to strip the original paint. You can see on these cars that I lost a few rivet details. I am going to go back and find that Frisco car pictured above and see if I can improve the result with this VMS finish and maybe some other techniques.

[michael13j]

Robert, I feel you. Wood cars are problematic for me too. 1) I trim decal VERY closely. 2) imho having a finish coating underneath "closes up" the plank/wood stirations. Instead I've tried using a #11 gently to force (or even cut) film over wood siding surfaces down in gaps between w/mixed success. My prototype/age the larger logotypes don't happen except on newer cars from off layout at a freight interchange. Dry transfers have worked well for me on wood (and brick) building walls but can have other issues. Chief among them is inability to find transfers for a particular car.

[Karl]

Well, the just learned a lesson on this debate. The paint finish seems to matter more than how I use the solvent. I have been decaling for a while. I would typically add a gloss coat. Then I did some Proto48 flatcars with ScaleCoat paint. The finish was decal ready (gloss). I started switching to TruColor as my PollyScale ran out. Those have been decal ready finished. I did this most recent Proto48 car with ScaleCoat again (I do love how well it sprays), but it was a matte finish. I decided to skip the gloss coat and use the solvent puddle method. Never again. It looked good when I was putting the decals down, but it silvered horribly. I had to strip half the car down and repaint. Gloss coated this time.

So for me, I won’t call the gloss coat rule a myth, I just know there are other factors. The paint finish is a massive one

[Allen]

I'm sorry to hear this Karl.
I didn't realize ScaleCoat ever had a matte finish?