N scale Southern Railway Memphis Division 1975ish (N)

[RyanB]

I have been working on this layout in my mind for many many years but the purchase of our current house 5 years ago has transitioned this from dream to project. It took a couple of years to get the room in the basement that was designated the train room(by my daughters when we looked at the house the first time, even before I saw the room) ready for a layout. I had a bunch of modules that I would put together in my old house to run trains but it was a rare time that could occur. In this new house I set up all my modules and cobbled together a few needed connectors and had a decent sized modular layout. But it was disjointed and didn't really do anything but run in a continuous loop. After a couple years I cleaned everything out and added electrical and drywall. Now that I had a specific space I could actually start really planning my layout. I worked and worked and eventually came up with a multi decked truly large layout that scratched all the itches I thought I had. Complicated? yes. Large in scope and detail? yup. Cover all of my truly necessary design elements? yup. I put in a floor and started building. I have Completed the deck for staging, the upper deck and have pieces of the middle deck structure built. I got trains first running on the staging level and had a number of long loops finished and running . I decided that the helix, which is going to be an extremely complicated 3 track affair, would be put off for a while until I had a very good idea of exactly how it was going to work. I also had to allow for when I could devote a significant amount of time to its exact planning and construction. For what I had in mind it could not be something I whipped up. It would have to be engineered well, the parts would have to be constructed well, and assembly would have to be near flawless. So return loop to staging to have continuous run capability and trains are moving again in my house. Covid hits and suddenly we are at home a lot. Just like most people. The structure and backdrop of the top deck get put up. Track is put down, taken up, put down again, and redone as the temporary loop shows me where some issues are. At this moment I have just completed a four track temporary staging yard on the shoo fly and am about to start running a local and switching some of the industries. We are about to see if what I have built is truly capable of supporting operations. But the funny thing is as I have been sitting here writing this I have started wondering if I have really bitten off more than I can chew. I do have local friends that would come over and run the layout when it is complete, or closer, anyway. I am not going anywhere house or job wise in the foreseeable future. Both mine and my wife's jobs are good and stable. Now my kids are headed to college, 1 this year and the other in two years so money for hobbies is definitely going to take take a hit for the next 6 years. We will be left with a house larger than we need, but from when we purchased it and mortgage rates, we couldn't get to a smaller place with room for hobbies for what it would cost. Besides, I still have to tile the kitchen(LOL). So like I said, sitting here writing this has made me wonder if I should just make a nolix or one or two turn helix down and just abandon the second deck as a sceniced level and just make staging on it and have just the upper deck as the visible portion of the railroad. Cuts complexity by a huge amount due to the way simpler helix(or whatever) down one level. Cuts cost by obvious amounts. Now operating wise it would be 4-5 people instead of 7-10. Now for either I could come up with the crews so that is not so much an issue. But it is way easier to put 5 folks together than 10. So you would definitely be operating more often with the smaller layout. Lastly, I am fully planning to have signaling and fairly complex electronics on the layout. That becomes much more doable when you halve the size of the layout as well. Lots of questions are still unanswered but are being worked on. I have enough motive power to run this top deck once put decoders in the locos I own and have the preorders I have come it. If Scale Trains brings their SD45 and GP30 down to n scale I would definitely have a good representation and enough motive power to do what I needed to do. I have 5 trains made up on the layout currently and still have plenty of cars in storage to be able to populate even the larger version without too much trouble. But right now it is just poking at me that I could simplify right now and probably be happy with what I have. I really guess that I will have to get a little further down the road of running this upper deck to make that call.

Here is the thread over at the Railwire that pretty much lays out the construction. I believe this is legal to link out for this forum? If not please let me know. It's seven pages so rehashing it here would be tough to do.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/in...?topic=49856.0

Thanks for reading. I will get some pics up in here soon.

Ryan

[Paul S.]

Welcome, Ryan! Thanks for the backstory.

If Scale Trains brings their SD45 and GP30 down to n scale I would definitely have a good representation and enough motive power to do what I needed to do.

While I don't have space to model Saluda Grade as I'd like to, with SD45s and SD40s aplenty, I would definitely lay out the coin of the realm for a Scale Trains high-nose Geep 30 in Southern colors!

[Allen]

Welcome aboard Ryan, thanks for joining us!
Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Lots of decisions to make.

I've seen and followed your threads elsewhere and am glad you've decided to start posting here.
I need to go back and reread and refresh my memory of your layout.

[Russ C]

Welcome to RMR Ryan!!
Your layout plan sounds ambitious and size and scope kinda reminds me of Allen's layout. And being Southern themed puts you in with a good group here.
I'm looking forward to your progress.

[Allen]

Russ, mine isn't near that large, and I've only got one level.

[Russ C]

Yours is plenty large Allen, just need more decks...

[Allen]

"Plenty large" is right.
More decks, no thanks, I've got enough to work on, thank you very much...lol

[Steve H AC&Y]

Welcome Ryan. I enjoyed your layout concept, build progress and discussion on TRW. I fully understand the "bit off more . . . " feeling too. We ran a full crew (three operators) on the AC&Y v2.0 today. I thought I made the right choice to back off the scope a bit and after the session I know I made the right choice. Your choice of railroad and timeframe is a winner IMO. Now is the time to reconsider the place and scope perhaps. I'm looking forward to seeing what develops.

[RyanB]

So I have decided to do a video explaining the layout. Kind of late to the game on this but better late than never.

https://youtu.be/PYd8V76VBQ0

[Michael Whiteman]

Thanks for this great video Ryan, and welcome to the group.

[JerryZ]

Hi Ryan:

Glad to see you posting over here. The video is a great explanation of your railroad, and I'm looking forward to future posts of your modeling.

Regards,
Jerry

[Steve H AC&Y]

Thanks for the video tour Ryan. Quite a project. WAY more than I ever contemplated but I like it. I'm always supportive of prototype based layouts.

Two things jumped out at me given recent experience. A good bit of the main line is very close to the backdrop. Such an arrangement diminishes scenic options. Modeling both sides of the right-of-way just makes things look better. The backdrop at 50 scale feet from the track centerline is about perfect IMO.

Second, at how many points where the main line is near the back of the shelf will it be necessary to uncouple cars? What is easy to do now, sans scenery, buildings, etc. will become an adventure once the scenery and buildings are in place. Forearms tend to rest on the front edge of the layout, laying waste to whatever is in the way, particularly with older operators whose eyesight or hand steadiness is not what it once was. Don't ask me how I know. I'm a fan of making the operator look between trees and buildings to see the train. Just be careful where it is required.

[RyanB]

Steve, I hear you about the points and those things are on the mind. I am definitely trying to “run” the railroad a bit to find those places where the backdrop is too close and there are issues coupling and such.

My Mom was gracious and gave me a great early birthday present of some track and turnouts. So I dropped that new track in and in doing so come much closer to what the extant of the top deck trackwork will be. Check out the video and let me know.

https://youtu.be/mDKM2i9UUxA

thanks!

Ryan

[Michael Whiteman]

I really enjoyed your video Ryan. I think you've come to a very good decision moving forward. You're fortunate to have so much room available in which to construct a lifetime layout. You speak of having a few operators but nothing of a few friends willing to help you build this. I agree, finish the single upper level first. After you get the track operational I'm sure you will know whether to create some structures and scenery, or move on with more track work. Maybe, for now, clear away the track on the lower level and use that shelf to set all your tools and building materials on. Having it there will allow you to come back years in the future and continue on or just remove it completely. This
decision does not need to be made anytime soon, so have fun on the upper level. I'm really liking your overall track plan Ryan.

[RyanB]

Thanks Michael!

The more I think about it and talk through some things the more I am convinced to only do the top deck as the focus of the layout. It allows me to stay in the area I spent my time in as a kid watching trains. It significantly decreases the cost and complexity of the layout as a whole and specifically in the three track helix with complicated crossovers in the helix and a crazy throat at the base. Nothing I have done so far will really go to waste as the code 80 flex should come up without issue from the caulk holding it down. Downsizing makes my current car count close to adequate for the new plan(need more generic black tank cars) and the number of locos needed will be reduced as well. If Scale Trains will go ahead and do GP30s and SD45s I would have a very good representation of 1975 Southern motive power. About the only thing missing would be a couple of U boats in both B and C flavors but the Southern had very few of them anyway.

The only thing kind of sticking in my craw was the already installed lower deck around the outside walls. This led me to “what if “ a little more and contemplate this on those lower shelves.

https://youtu.be/6ZUT3TDP_Wc

This would be a definitive third phase but nonetheless offer some great switching opportunities.

Continuing the “what ifs” here is another look at the L&N interchange:

https://youtu.be/VyC38L3bX0A

Thanks for looking!

Ryan

[RyanB]

Well, with these modifications the former mid deck has been converted to a staging deck. The helix to serve the upper deck becomes a much simpler 2 track affair with a whole lot of area for actual staging. The axiom is you never have enough staging but I am pretty sure I will be happy with what this deck will provide. I am also definitely setting it up for the industrial spur off the East end of Sheffield Yard for a future expansion project. Way in the future. Online helix calculator says 6 to 7 turns at about 1.3% grade. Grade is definitely easy for something like this. Also makes it so I can stretch the standard train length to about 25 cars and 4 locos. The grade just west of Tuscumbia is steep for a main line and for long trains had 5-6 units in run 8 at about 20mph past pne of our fav watching spots. The track was in a cut and you were watching from about mid cabinet to even with the top of the loco depending on where you stood. Lots of noise and feeling of raw power. Good memories and glad to have made a decision.

[Allen]

But the funny thing is as I have been sitting here writing this I have started wondering if I have really bitten off more than I can chew.

hey Ryan,
I've been meaning to respond to your first post since you've posted it but it kept slipping my mind.
Mainly because I wasn't sure how or what to type in response.

Over the last couple of years I have wondered the same thing, did I allow my imagination and eyes to override my common sense?
One of my close friends moved into a new house and he had dreams of making a rather large N scale MoPac White River layout.
He worked on it for about 3 months and then just suddenly stopped.
Called me the next day and told me he has decided to not build the monstrosity, because he had an epiphany.

What he told me rang true, but I ignored it: "I want a layout that will work for me, not one that I'll have to work for."
The following weekend we tore down all the benchwork that we had built earlier, saved what we could and tossed the rest.

After a week he presented me with a much smaller plan, it was a kidney shaped 5' x 12' full loop.
It had a short 5 track staging, two towns, one with a small yard. I think it had a total of 8 industries to work on the visible section.
It was based on the Clinchfield.
Trains moved from the staging yard to the yard, swapped power and head back to the staging with a train from the opposite direction. When everything was run, the layout was ready for the next session.
Chessie power came down from the north and Clinchfield came up from the south, or maybe it vice versa?
He had one spur that was a mine run and two locals.
All these trains came to main yard, swapped cars or power and returned to the staging.

All in all, a pretty simple plan.
Once the trains were running, we set a time to operate it. All this time I kept thinking "Well this is going to get boring real fast?"
Boy was I wrong!
That first op session took just the two of us almost three hours to get all the trains run and then set out and pick up the cars.
I was amazed! By the time we were done, we both felt fully content that we got to play trains and had a good night.
Anything more and I think we would have started taking short cuts in the Ops plan.

Since then I have been taking strong looks at smaller layouts and how to work ops. It's amazing how much work there actually is. The play time is also extended mainly with slower speeds.

There are times, especially now that I'm starting to work pretty hard on scenery, and I step back and think to myself, "I wonder if I could remove a portion of my layout and still be happy with it?"
So far I have not taken a chainsaw to it, but I do wish I had gone with a smaller plan.
As I was building it in back 2010 & 11 I was actually thinking about running another section along my east wall for more operation possibilities.
I'm glad I never did that.

What I have now will probably never get finished before they plant me 6' under, but I have decided to just move forward with the existing plan and finish what I can, when I can.

I have even gone as far to remove industries to gain negative space, much like I did with the Whitewater Creek scene.
I do like the fact that it is a long linear design so my trains only go through the scene once and takes a while to get across the layout.
I also tore out my big staging yard, because I just didn't need that much after reducing my Ops plan.
Easier to operate and less to clean and maintain.
Right now I'm down to one local (the star of the layout and two through freights that can run if we have crews to man them.
I have one live interchange with the ICG and one fictitious shortline (which may move back to being operated as a branchline still served by the Rock?).


I am in no way telling you that you should do this with your setup, as you may have a different set of circumstances. But I will tell you one thing which you have already eluded to, don't tear anything out, but leave it alone for now and keep it as possibility for the future since you already have benchwork built.

Looking forward to seeing your layout progress.

[Steve H AC&Y]

Well, with these modifications the former mid deck has been converted to a staging deck.

Or, as I like to say in jest "elaborately constructed shelving". Kidding aside, I like the direction you've chosen. Reducing the scope and complexity will pay dividends in piece of mind. Focusing on modeling childhood memories while providing the base for satisfying ops increases the chances something will get built. And if the bug bites you can always resurrect the other decks. Good choice.

[Paul S.]

Well, with these modifications the former mid deck has been converted to a staging deck. The helix to serve the upper deck becomes a much simpler 2 track affair with a whole lot of area for actual staging. The axiom is you never have enough staging but I am pretty sure I will be happy with what this deck will provide.

Now that's an interesting innovation I confess to not recall ever seeing -- staging in the middle level! I'm sure making that decision didn't come lightly, Ryan.

I agree, I think you'll appreciate it as operations commence.

[RyanB]

Guys

I really do appreciate the affirmation. As I continue to build out the benchwork for the new mid level staging I feel better and better about it. There is so much operational work that is already present in the trackwork i have already placed on the upper level. It really makes for two longer locals than I had originally planned for. Plus, if it does approach being finished. There is the partial lower deck option.